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Author Topic: Saakshath Paramatma Shirdi Sai Baba - Itara Devatalu  (Read 3530 times)
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Gorthi
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« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2011, 01:08:28 PM »

Jai Sai Master.

Quote
I have a doubt, should one consider that his samskara is great that he don't need to pray the deity anymore or he should continue praying. Of course, we understand from Sai Leelamrutham, that if any vows are left for the deity, he has to fulfill to that form of god only. Will there be a cut off point and/or we continue to try for, seeing Baba in every deity and form.

IMHO, common people like us could never be able to generalize and judge this.

For example, Sri Ramakrishna paramahamsa was worshipping Kali Mata till the final stages of His sadhana, till Maa directed Him to go to Totapuri, and more importantly, even after going to Totapuri! Of course, well before resorting to Totapuri itself, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is million times better than any of us who are claiming to be the followers of Saksath Paramatha Sri Saibaba.

Another example: people like Turkaram are among the greatest devotees of the deity Panduranga. Their samskaras are infinite times better than any of us. There is no doubt that they have attained mukthi. They could see Panduranga in every animate and inanimate object.

Master garu says something like this in one of His speeches:
అన్నీ తానే అయి ఉన్న, పేరు లేని ఒక వస్తువుకి మనం పెట్టుకున్న పేరే బాబా.

In the same way, for such great devotees like Ramganna Babu garu, Chivatam amma, Ananda Mayi, Tukaram:
అన్నీ తానే అయి ఉన్న, పేరు లేని ఒక వస్తువుకి వారు పెట్టుకున్న పేరే రాముడు/కాళి/పాడురంగడు అని పిలవబడే దేవుడు/దేవత.

So those are the people who are REALLY enjoying the taste of the sweet, and we are the poor fellows discussing about what is the correct name of the sweet  Wink


Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 01:39:48 PM by gorthi » Logged
Prahlad RN
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« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2011, 01:26:01 PM »

HaH. Poor in everything. For the time being, lets enjoy the sweet of knowing that there are people like that.  Cheesy

Agree. I will try to understand more.
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Ananth
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« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2011, 09:34:44 AM »

Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Gorthi garu, Jai Sai Master!

Quote
So those are the people who are REALLY enjoying the taste of the sweet, and we are the poor fellows discussing about what is the correct name of the sweet 

So true!!

Just adding a couple of more thoughts to this thread.

Sri Guru Charitra clearly says in chapter two, there there is single "shakti" and it manifests according to the modes of "Creation" "Sustainment" "Destruction". Anthe kaani nijaaniki ee mugguriki bedhame ledu (page 66, I think)

I have tried to write some of my thoughts on this thread, but have been totally lacking on clarity. I wrote and deleted it 3 times. Maybe that's one way to show how futile it is to be even comparing who is who and why is SOMEONE different than OTHERS!! I guess it is our very inherent nature to differentiate. Good/Bad, Tall/Short, Then/Now, Them/Me, Happy/Sad etc. Being in that nature, we will keep comparing until our knowledge, our True Knowledge is fine tuned. Whether we observe it or not, we keep comparing Baba to other mahatmas, sometimes without our knowlege. Now, I don't know whether this "ingorance" (the ignorance of comparing mahatmas against mahatmas) is bad or good or "JUST AS IS", but here's something that took my attention.

From "Sai Baba, The Master", Sri Master garu writes that when we doubt one mahatma, we automatically get rejected by the mahatma in whom we believe in. Because THEY are always in UNITY. We get rejected because we failed to see the very Unity that they wanted us to see. We failed by doing the comparisions. (my apologies Sai Bandhus because I cannot recollect which page it is from Sai Baba the Master). This applies to not just mahatmas but to devathas also.

One other thought while following this thread has come to my mind. In the introduction of "Sai Baba, The Master", Sri Master garu says this.
Quote
Or is there a possibility that at a higher level of consciousness all these attitudes could coexist without the one interrupting the other?”

Here is the link (3rd para): http://saibharadwaja.org/books/saibabathemaster/themastercallsme.aspx

What caught my attention again with this quote was, the last state that Master garu mentions, is a state that Baba is in. It is a state that Sri Master is in. It is a state that the TriMurtis are in (while also being in the manifestation of "Creation/Sustainment/estrution").

Just some thoughts.

Best regards to all,
Jai Sai Master!

PS:
A couple of more quotes from Sri Master garu which, in my honest opinion, can be applied to this thread.

Quote from Sai Baba The Master
Quote
Though most of Sai Baba’s devotees had this insight, only some of them could be careful enough not to lose sight of it under the blunting effect of familiarity and prolonged contact. Not that it would lessen Baba’s influence. Only they are likely to miss the joy of it and the real significance of their life’s precious contact with him. To draw a parallel, Jesus told his apostles of his being the Christ and of the power of their faith in him. Yet when their boat was tossed by a stormy sea they panicked and Jesus Christ rebuked them as men ‘of little faith’. His appearance in flesh and blood made them confuse the Christ with Jesus, the son of Mary. So too inspite of several insights into Lord Krishna’s divinity, Arjuna, repeatedly erred into treating him just as a human comrade, a mere friend of yadava clan, for which he apologizes in “The Bhagavadgita”. Such a view is presented by some accounts of Baba. Most surprisingly, this too comes from one of Baba’s most intimate devotees, Madhavarao Deshpande whom Baba called ‘Shama’. And Shama did repent, when Baba took samadhi, that he did not make the best use of that contact.

Another one.
Quote
As we have not yet transcended the identification of our selves with our bodies, we cannot help associating our idea of Baba’s greatness with his physical form. For, after all, we know him first and foremost in that form; and, without it, we would never, know of him;and to love him with all our heart, to impress it indelibly on our minds, it is very essential for our progress. For Jesus the Christ too, like Baba, though he was ‘the word’ he was ‘Word made flesh’ in order to be known to us.

In a much grosser way, ( I said "grosser" because we are neither like the great disciples of Chirst nor like the devotees of Sri Sai Baba like Shama and Dixit) we mistake Sai Baba as the body that lived in Shirdi but not as the very consciousness that permeates this universe. In the same way, we mistake Siva, as just "the destroyer" but not the consciousness that permeates this universe. We mistake Sri maha Vishnu as 'Just' "the sustainer" but not as the consciousness that permeates this universe. This grand mistake (that we keep doing, day-in and day-out) is seen more clearly when we read "Dhyana yoga Sarvaswam" page 19 - chapter name "Sadhanaku soochanalu" - First para.

Quote
Siva ante PERFECT, PURE HOLY, without a Blemish ani artham. Okka maatalo cheppaali ante sarvaanikee adhaaramaina chaitanyam tanaku taane elaa anubhavamu avutundo - "anyam" lekunda.....aa anubhavame 'Siva'. Idi gurtu unchukoni 'sivaaya namaha' anna mantraanni japinchaali.

So, Sri Master garu Himself gave us the above pearls. Do we need anything more? Glory to Sri Master!! Jai Sai Master!

Dearest Raguram garu, Jai Sai Master! You have written very nice points to ponder on. Thank you!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 10:28:46 AM by ananth » Logged

Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!
Raghuram
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« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2011, 04:01:06 AM »

jai saimaster!

Quote
Sri Guru Charitra clearly says in chapter two, there there is single "shakti" and it manifests according to the modes of "Creation" "Sustainment" "Destruction". Anthe kaani nijaaniki ee mugguriki bedhame ledu (page 66, I think)
I was trying to recollect this point all through..but could not.

Quote
Dearest Raguram garu, Jai Sai Master!

jai saimster Ananth garu.

jai saimaster!
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Dwarakanath
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« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2011, 08:54:03 AM »

Jai Sai Master!

Just to throw a wrench into the discussion.. Smiley

Please study the last line of the last but one paragraph of this page to
http://saibharadwaja.org/books/srisaimasterpravachanamulu/spr248.png

and

http://saibharadwaja.org/books/srisaimasterpravachanamulu/spr249.png (especially the lines before and with the bold parts)

I do agree with the discussion, many points, but these put things into good perspective, and seem to support Mannava satyamgaru. Or do they? Please study and think and discuss.

Jai Sai Master!!
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SaimasterDevotee
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« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2011, 09:35:31 AM »

Jai Sai Master!

You read my mind dwarakagaru, Yes i read those and i found so many like those in gurucharitra too. Thats why i asked can we discuss??, but i feel like we gurubandhus have different wave lengths, and one has to understand the other, before saying something, then only a good/better/best communication takes place. With that intention i started my response but unintentionally i pressed a wrong button. Cheesy something got hurt, and i got violent answer.

Jai Sai Master!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 11:09:58 AM by saimaster_eb » Logged

"The life of Saibaba is as wide and as deep as the infinite ocean;all can dive deep into it and take out precious gems of knowledge and devotion and cherish them to transform their lives." --- Sri Sai Satcharitra
Gorthi
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« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2011, 03:22:13 PM »

Jai Sai Master.

Dear Dwaraka garu, Jai Sai Master. Please correct me if I end up in misfitting the parts of the truth with the wrench!

Most of the things that I am writing below is based on mere book-reading knowledge, and thus, definitely prone to errors.
So, Guru Bandhus, please correct me .

We may see mainly two kinds of scenarios:
(1) We may want to get rid of our problems, or fulfill our desires, and, for that purpose, resorting to different devatas for fulfillment of different goals. The devatas are selected based on their apparent specializations!!! 
For example:  ఆరోగ్యం కావాలి-సూర్యనారాయణమూర్తి ఉపాసన; ధనం-లక్ష్మీ ఉపాసన; చదువు-సరస్వతీ ఉపాసన; కోర్టు కేసు నెగ్గాలి-సుందరకాండ పారాయణ; శత్రు నాశనం-నరసింహస్వామి (ఉగ్ర?)ఆరాధన, వేరు వేరు ఇబ్బందులకు వేరు వేరు గ్రహ శాంతులు...... and the list goes on.....

The story doesn't even end there....
Here is an hypothetical example which is not uncommon in reality (similar example is there in one of the Master gari speeches): పెళ్లి కుదరటం లేదు, 108 సార్లు సుందరకాండ  పారాయణ చేసాడు. ఐనా కుదరలేదు. ఎవరో వచ్చి, "అంజనేయస్వామే ఒక  బ్రహ్మచారి, ఆయన్ని పూజిస్తే పెళ్లి ఎలా అవుతుంది?, కాబట్టి అంజనేయ స్వామిని ప్రక్కన పెట్టి,108 రోజులు లలితా సహస్రం చెయ్యి. అలా ఐతే గానీ నీకు పెళ్లి (తిక్క?) కుదరదు" అని చెప్పాడు. వీడు పాపం ఇలా పిల్లి తన పిల్లలని ఇళ్ళు మార్చినట్లు పెళ్లి అయ్యిదాకా దేవుళ్ళని మారుస్తో వుంటాడు....

If we notice closely, those are the ones who are thinking that each devata is different from the other, and each is specialized expert in their specific areas of interest. This is exactly the scenario that Master garu were referring in the following speech, saying: "ఈ దేవతలందరూ వేరు వేరని తలచి సేవించే వారు.."
http://saibharadwaja.org/books/srisaimasterpravachanamulu/spr248.png

All the definitions of devatalu cited by Satyam garu highlights this category:
Quote
ఆ పరమాత్మ బ్రహ్మదేవునికి శ్రుష్టి చేసే సామర్ధ్యం మాత్రమే ఇచ్చాడు.విష్నుమూర్థికి ఆ స్తితిలో నిలిపి ఉంచ్చే సామర్ధ్యము ఇచాడు. శివునికి మరలా లయం చేసే సామర్ద్యం మాత్రమే ఇచ్చాడు. వీరు శ్రుస్టి స్తితి లయ కారకులు. వీరిలో ఒకరికి ఉన్న సామర్ధ్యాలు ఒకరికి లేవు. అలాగే సరస్వతిదేవికి విద్యలు ప్రసాదించె సామర్ధ్యమూ, లక్ష్మీదేవికి సంపదలు ప్రసాదించే సమర్ధతా, పార్వతీదేవికి దుష్టులను సంహరించే శక్తీ  ఇచ్చాడు.

Now the 2nd scenario:
(2)  They are naturally more attracted to a specific deity by His glory and qualities.
The attraction in this case is NOT driven by mere fulfillment of materialistic desires.
Instead, the attraction/love stems from (at least partial) understanding (అవగాహన) of the God, goal and the path.
Based on individual tastes, it is but natural that different people gets attracted to apparently different forms of deities.

In the gradual process of 2nd scenario...
They now want to start leading a life in the way that pleases their deity.
For that purpose they start knowing more about His nature and His teachings.
They also want to get a better understanding of the goal of life, and modify their lifestyle accordingly.
(Again, depending on the state of evolution there could be a wide range of variety within each category, and some times, mix of both categories in the same person.)

With such devout study and sincere contemplation on any form of deity, one is bound to realize that all that exists is but the ACTUAL form of his deity, and there is nothing different and separate from Him in this Universe. This what all Mahatmas like Master garu are repeatedly telling us.

It is to THIS form of deity to be contemplated, that Master garu were referring below:
Quote
శివ అంటే Perfect, Pure, Holy, without a blemish అని అర్ధం. Perfect అన్నదెప్పుడూ infinite; eternal (లేకుంటే finite or limited అనే defects వుంటాయి) కనుక unchanging అనికూడా అర్ధం. ఒక్కమాటలో చెప్పాలంటే సర్వానికీ ఆధారమైన చైతన్యం తనకు తానే ఎలా అనుభవమౌతుందో - "అన్యం" లేకుండా. ఆ అనుభవమే "శివ". అంటే అన్యం అనేది లేకుంటే పరిమితి వల్ల వచ్చే భయ రాగ ద్వేష స్వార్ధాలుండవు. ఇది గుర్తుంచుకుని "శివాయనమః" అన్న మంత్రాన్ని జపించాలి. ఒకసారి జపిస్తూ underline చేసిన భావాన్ని తెచ్చుకుని అది ఎంతసేపు నిలిస్తే అంతసేపూ నిలుపుకుని ఆ అనుభవం అంతమొందబోతుండగా మళ్ళీ ఆ భావాన్ని తిరిగి ప్రతిష్టించుకోవాలి. అలా తెరిపి ఇవ్వకుండా చెయ్యాలి.....

Sri Adi Sankarulu also refering to the fact that  the deities are not different from each other, by saying:
Quote
The heart of Vishnu is Shiva, and the heart of Shiva is Vishnu; one's well-being lies in not seeing them as different.
 


So... in view of the above discussion, I am thinking of the the following points:

(1) బాబా వంటి వివిధ మహాత్ముల చరిత్రల పారాయణ, మరియు వారు చెప్పిన పద్ధతిలో గురువు/ఇష్ట-దేవతారాదన ద్వారా మన అవగాహన క్రమంగా పెంచుకోవాలి.

(2) సద్గురువు యొక్క ఆరాధన ఇష్ట-దేవతారాదన కంటే ఎంతో శ్రేయస్కరము అనేది నిస్సందేహమైన విషయమే అయినప్పటికి, సద్గురువునే ఆరాధించమని ఎవరిపైనా రుద్దకూడదు. కొంత సమయం తర్వాత ఆ మార్పు సహజంగా వస్తుంది. ఈ విషయంలో, ఈ క్రింది సంఘటనలో మాష్టారుగారి ఆచరణే మనకు నిదర్శనము:
http://saibharadwaja.org/books/readbook.aspx?book=22&page=65   

(3) దేవతలు అందరూ ఒకరి నుండి ఒకరు వేరు అన్న భావంతో కోరికలు తీర్చుకోవడం కోసమని వేర్వేరు దేవతలను గుడ్డిగా ఆరాధించడం సరి అయినది కాదు. అలా మన తోటి వారెవరైనా చెస్తుంటే, మనకు తెలిసినంత వరకు, వారికి నచ్చే పద్దతిలో, సున్నితంగా తెలియజేసి, సాయి లీలామృతము మరియు ఇతర మహాత్ముల చరిత్రలు పరిచయం చేసి వాటిని వారు కూడా చదవడానికి ప్రోత్సహించాలి. వాటిని చదవడం ద్వారా మన అవగాహన మరియు వారి అవగాహన పెంచుకోవడానికి ప్రయత్నించాలి. (ఎందుకంటే అలా చెయ్యడం మన ధర్మంలో భాగం కాబట్టి...) ఈ విషయంలో మాష్టారు గారు క్రింద ఆర్టికల్లో చేసిన సూచనలను దృష్టిలో ఉంచుకోవాలి:
http://saibharadwaja.org/books/readbook.aspx?book=22&page=128

(4) అలాగే, దేవతారాధనను గుడ్డిగా ఖండించడం కూడా చాల పొరపాటు. సరైన పద్దతిలో చేసీ దేవతారాధన ద్వారా కూడా పరమ గమ్యాన్ని చేరవచ్చును అనడానికి, రంగన్నబాబు గారు, చివటం అమ్మ, అఖండానంద సరస్వతి స్వామి లాంటి ఎందరో మహాత్ముల చరిత్రలే ఉదాహరణలు.

I wish what I wrote makes some sense!

Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 03:38:55 PM by gorthi » Logged
Dwarakanath
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« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2011, 04:41:52 PM »

Jai Sai Master!

Subbrahmanyamgaru,

What you wrote perfectly makes sense. I agree with it totally.

The whole question of whether one should worship Siva or not, after being moved by Baba (being a Baba devotee is too big a word, i guess) arose, and the lines in which Satyamgaru was talking about were peculiar. I thought that the whole issue is based on mingling two things.

Most of us are talking about Sai Tattwam, where Siva is no different from Sai.
Satyamgaru was talking from "Saamardhyam" and "Kartavyam", saying that it might be distracting to worship someone else.

First, when talking of Sai Tattwam, when one is worshiping Sai in the form of Siva, there is no doubt that it is right. Then Satyamgaru asked "Paikokati lopala vokati enduku?" My answer is that "Paiki edo lopala ade, anduke Sivudi roopamloni Saini keertinchadam, Brahma Dattayanamaha, Vishnu Dattaaya namaha, Siva Dattaayanamaha, atri Dattaaya namaha.. annattu."
However,  looking at it from a social context (especially after reading Master's article to TTD meet of Mathadhipatis
http://saibharadwaja.org/magazines/saibaba201106June.pdf - pages 7 and Cool, people following multiple forms might cause more problems because of lack of understanding that it is ultimately One that they are worshiping. Thus, a unification in terms of form is desirable. That said, it is not just abolition of other forms that is a solution, rather a common ground on which all the diversity resides is what is required.  From this angle, I do agree that Sri Sai Must be worshiped by all as a matter of principle, atleast one day in the future, irrespective of whether they also worship Him in other forms or not.
From the Sai Tattwam point of view, there is no difference between Siva and Sai. But from the point of view of "Sadguruvu devatalakanna adhikudu", it seems that the form, name and being of a True Sadguru is more desirable for worship than that of any 'diety' (unless one has that diety as one's own Sadguru). From a devotee's point of view, when the worship is with the view of True Oneness, which is Sai Tattwam, any respectable object (like the padukas in Gangapur or Siva Lingam over Mankiya Prabhu's Samadhi) is equally potent and when such oneness is lost then it is futile.

"Sadguruvunu ashrayinchinapudu migataa devatalato emi pani" annappudu adi khacchitamga vaastavam. It is true that when one is worshiping the Sadguru, there is no NECESSITY to worship any other deity. But when one is worshiping the Sadguru, one is worshiping all the deities too!! The trouble comes when one forgets the Oneness of the Sadguru.

Now coming to the main point of contention : When Sadguru alone can give Mukti, and not any other deity, then why worship others?
Then answer here lies in the simple fact that if one is worshiping any Deity, as long as one remembers that He is worshiping His Sadguru in that form, then there is no problem, such a one will get Mukti. When one forgets that, then one will not get mukti.

Here the question is not "Worshiping Sadguru" VS "Worshiping Siva". It is rather "Worshiping Sadguru" AND "Worshiping Sadguru in the form of Siva too". And this, I think should settle this whole discussion.

Jai Sai Master!!
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Gorthi
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« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2011, 03:47:19 AM »

Jai Sai Master.

Dear Dwaraka garu, Jai Sai Master. Many thanks for your valuable inputs.

Thank you for pointing to the Master gari article; I will go through it carefully, and I hope to get a better understanding.

Jai Sai Master.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 06:04:25 AM by gorthi » Logged
Prahlad RN
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« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2011, 10:11:39 AM »

Sir, thanks for teaching the essence of the topic.

As,I could not restain adding someting I understand...
It is the Oneness which should be prayed, by the name of the deity or Sadguru. Otherwise different cults will be formed invariably, the pupose of spiritual interest and humanity are lost. How about religious tolerance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUW-1daMB7k&feature=related

We should not enforce the idea of praying Satguru and detaining deities. However, we should encourage the devotee to see the importance of Satguru. As per, Sakala Sadhu Swaroopamu in Saileelamruthamu. There are Mahatmas who worshipped Lord Vittal, However, Baba has stopped one mother who wants to visit Pandharpur, by giving her the darshan of Lord Vittal in his place. As, Sri Babugaru emphasized it is the way of worshipping which needs to be learnt and the result depends on it.
http://www.saibharadwaja.org/books/saileelamruthamu/saileelamruthamu.aspx?chapter=6

First paragraph,
http://www.saibharadwaja.org/books/saileelamruthamu/saileelamruthamu.aspx?chapter=9

One difference we can see to my knowledge is, there is less subject in writing or events in history, that are taught by Deities when compared to a Satguru. How a normal devotee learns all those things from a deity? Might be, Poorvajanma Samskaras may help him. Not sure, Shiva puranam etc. books can teach to a level of what Satguru can teach. A true devotion towards a deity will lead to Satguru, looks the only supporting aspect. All such ideas encourage, an act of gentle and polite, introduction of Satguru and presentation of Sai Leelamrutham for one and all.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 10:42:36 AM by Prahlad RN » Logged
Dwarakanath
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« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2011, 05:13:02 PM »

Jai Sai Master!

Totally well said Prahladgaru.

Jai Sai Master!!
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Swayam
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« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2011, 07:43:29 PM »

Jai SaiMaster

Quote
But from the point of view of "Sadguruvu devatalakanna adhikudu", it seems that the form, name and being of a True Sadguru is more desirable for worship than that of any 'diety' (unless one has that diety as one's own Sadguru).

Quote
(2) సద్గురువు యొక్క ఆరాధన ఇష్ట-దేవతారాదన కంటే ఎంతో శ్రేయస్కరము అనేది నిస్సందేహమైన విషయమే అయినప్పటికి

So if we worship the diety as the very form of Sadguru then there is nothing wrong in worshipping a diety.
If we worship the deity with the thinking that the diety is just that diety alone not the form of Parabrahma then it is wrong.

That being said what is THAT, that makes worshipping Sadguru special/better than worshipping diety, why and how is this speciality missing when we worship a diety.
If I have a wrong thinking that diety is just limited by the power of that diety , the same thinking will get reflected in worshipping Sadguru also isnt it.
What is THAT in Sadguru that makes us avoid this pitfall/thinking. IF Iam unable to understand the diety as Parabrahma swarupam, I can do the same mistake when I worship Sadguru also.

We will not do above mistake in case of worshipping Sadguru because

a) Sadguru has given instances that HE is SakalaDevata Swarupam,  which is not given by the diety ??
   
b) Sadguru's form doesn't depict only one particular funtionality like Siva or Vishnu , rather Sadguru is Trimurti/Parabrahma swarupam
Though this Parabrahma swarupam is attributed to Siva and Vishnu also there are more chances that we will be missing that when we worship Siva/Vishnu and this missing will not happen when we worship Sadguru ??

Please help me in understanding this better

Jai SaiMaster

Jai SaiMaster


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గురుబోధయొక్క సారం గ్రహించి దాని ప్రకారం మన యోచనను, పనులను సంస్కరించుకొన్నపుడే మనం నిజంగా గురువును ఆశ్రయించినట్లు. అలాగాకుంటే అది మిథ్యాభక్తే.
Whatever we practice,becomes the swabhAvA.If control is practiced persistently that will become the swabhAvA.
Raghuram
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« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2011, 09:02:48 AM »

jai saimaster!

Gravity is such a wonderful thing. If not for gravity, earth would not have formed at all. The earths atmosphere is wonderful too. It protects us from most of the things that come from outer space. It protects from the dangerous rays that come from Sun.

Which one is greater, the gravitational force or earth's atmosphere? or is there no such question at all? Both remind the way universe works. or not? Is there any gravitation or earth's atmosphere apart from universe?

Thinking that gravity or earth's atmosphere is seperate from universe is not sin or wrong. It is rather, silly and non-sense. It just means lack of application of mind. Telling to oneself (as a rule) that I should learn to look gravity as universe or earth's atmosphere as universe is something like saying that I should learn or practice to laugh at good jokes.

My bit.

jai saimaster!
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Swayam
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« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2011, 11:12:31 PM »

Jai SaiMaster

Raghuram garu,sorry, could not map your reply to my question. Sad

Quote

But from the point of view of "Sadguruvu devatalakanna adhikudu", it seems that the form, name and being of a True Sadguru is more desirable for worship than that of any 'diety'
Quote

Why ?

Quote
(2) సద్గురువు యొక్క ఆరాధన ఇష్ట-దేవతారాదన కంటే ఎంతో శ్రేయస్కరము అనేది నిస్సందేహమైన విషయమే 

Why ?

Jai SaiMaster
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గురుబోధయొక్క సారం గ్రహించి దాని ప్రకారం మన యోచనను, పనులను సంస్కరించుకొన్నపుడే మనం నిజంగా గురువును ఆశ్రయించినట్లు. అలాగాకుంటే అది మిథ్యాభక్తే.
Whatever we practice,becomes the swabhAvA.If control is practiced persistently that will become the swabhAvA.
Dwarakanath
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« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2011, 11:56:23 PM »

Jai Sai Master!

It is so for quite a few reasons. For that, one has to look at the nature of 'worship'.

To worship something, one has to respect, love, adore and admire it. And along with that, one needs as clear a conception of the it.

For us, deities are mere conceptual elements, nothing more. Not much in terms of 'learning' and 'application' arise out of deities. Also, visualizing any deity, in its truer form, is a hard thing for a normal mind to conceive.

Where as, Sadguru being more closer, someone who has shown in His own example, explained it in our own terms, is much more easy to 'conceive'. The Sadguru's mere form is not just a 'representation' of the higher truths, but an actual, palpable  and tangible presentation of those truths, as they apply to our lives. Also, where as Deities such as Vishnu, Siva, etc., although are the very aspects of that one Sadguru, they neither take care of, nor inspire, any human activity that leads to betterment, other than say, the avatars of Vishnu or Siva.

 Hence, even to worship a deity, to get that devotion towards such, and to understand how to worship such, is a great leap for the mundane mind. The meaning of the forms of the Deities, such as the reasons for four hands, etc., are to be imparted by a Sadguru, for the devotee to grasp.

 Sadguru is Paramatma availing Himself to us to lead us from darkness to light, from ignorance to bliss. He is the direct link to the truths beyond the grasp of senses.

Thus, a person, in awe with the Sadguru and His teachings, is easily, and almost without effort, can afford to meditate, to 'worship', the Highest Truth, the Highest ideal. Also, in that very worship, teaching is imparted, which automatically corrects the failings of the disciple and shows the way forward, and provides the necessary motivation and the feeling of security needed for such a journey into the Truth.

Hence, the True Sadguru's mere name, form and being are more desirable, easy, direct and accurate objects of worship. Here, worshiping the Sadguru is not to 'ignore' the rest, but if the 'awe' for the Sadguru is grasped, automatically one becomes one-pointed in worshiping the Sadguru, and every action, even the puja to Siva, becomes a worship of the Sadguru for such a devotee. Every mundane action gets imbued with the presence of the ultimate Truth of everything, which is the presence of Sadguru, and thus the whole life becomes a combination of voluntary and involuntary worship.

Such a level of involvement cannot be achieved by the mere 'conceptions' of the mind, which are the Deities, to the common mind. And if any such does arouse such an effect in that devotee, for that devotee, such a Deity becomes the Sadguru, as from the view point of the devotee, Sadguru can only be defined as such.

Jai Sai Master!!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 12:01:30 AM by Dwarakanath » Logged

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